That is how the EFF works. They work on current affairs, on immediate issues, on populism. Also, one has to say that there is a strong suspicion of corruption with thein particular. [VBS was a mutual bank primarily serving lower-income communities which, upon being placed under curatorship in early 2018, was found to have undergone widespread looting and corruption by various government and political party officials].
Let’s start with the ANC caucus where you meet every week at a set time chaired by the chair of caucus with the chief whip. Here you run through the legislation that is coming and Ministers will report on their legislation. They will often present you with supporting documents that aren’t public. So you really get an inside picture of why the ANC is taking certain positions on certain issues.
There was also a lot of controversy around your role in Parliament’s ethics committee. Could you tell me about that experience? The parliamentary code of conduct makes provision for a parliamentary court of sorts. The ethics committee appoints nine members to set up a court. I chaired that. We summoned Dina Pule. She was very angry, very resentful that she was a minister and had been summoned here to us.
Absolutely. After I left, the ethics committee was given to Amos Masondo, the new chair of the National Council of Provinces. [Masondo, a former ANC soldier and Robben Island prisoner, is a former mayor of Johannesburg, serving between 2000 and 2011.] I have known him for years and he is a tame person. So, he called me up once I had left Parliament saying he was the new chair of ethics and wanted me to come and tell him what was up.
So, there I was and the bill is coming to parliament and I have to vote. So, I phoned up Albie Sachs [Judge on South Africa’s Appeal Court and an ANC activist] and I asked him, is it constitutional? And he said no way. I phoned Geoff Budlender [human rights lawyer] and asked him. He said it is very bad law and it is not constitutional. I was at home discussing this with my wife, Mary, and I didn’t know what to do. I left home on the day of the vote and I still wasn’t sure.
These guys were taken aback because Pallo is a big man with a serious reputation. We adjourned the meeting. Then a few weeks later there was an ANC meeting somewhere in Joburg that I attended and Gwede Mantashe was standing outside of that particular room and I went up to him and confronted him. I was furious. I told him, “I will never forgive you for calling me a counter-revolutionary. With my record. Really.” I went for him. He was totally taken aback.
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